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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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welcome back Richard hey Stefan now

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you've heard of the the storybook the

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song of fire and ice oh yeah which is

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the game of thats right yes cool I've

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got a bit of story you have what's

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called the story of jet and lag ok let's

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say you have been 12 jetsetter how many

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awesome you just got back in you a

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couple of days ago and I don't even know

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what time it is yesterday or tomorrow

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but it's here now and we're here you're

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totally jet lag totally looking pretty

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fragile thank you but you've got a bit

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of a Norwegian hairstyle what's what's

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with that means I haven't visited the

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barber yeah ah that's all that means but

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look at this it's a map oh oh one of my

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souvenirs oh look at that little

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downtown also also was a beautiful place

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to visit yeah I was there and thank you

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again to christen mart for looking after

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me I went to Dublin thank you uh for

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vanilla for looking after me then I went

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to QED in Manchester LA and spoke there

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yeah and then I went and why gonna

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actually I went to Prague and was picked

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up by the wonderful lovely Martina who

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is part of the film festival in Allah

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moats and we were driven there and I

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spent the next week being at the film

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festival goodness gracious mere well

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what what it was that a week two weeks

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how long did you spend all that although

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we are together three weeks away three

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weeks away yo you must have you almost

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getting your own skeptics frequent flyer

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program i reckon i think it should now

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listeners oh you may remember that on

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last week's show i was reporting from

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the film festival and we announced the

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winner of the international competition

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which was the movie the grammar of

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happiness which is a really great

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science document oh yeah and the

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producer Michael O'Neill is in Sydney so

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they said would I mind accepting on his

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behalf because he couldn't be that I

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said that's great sure i'll do that now

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and they presented me with chris he won

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twice he won the student jury and the

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world jury and a heart of the world jury

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care so he got two of these not just

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open this bowl what's that this is it

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looks like a club owner oh it's making a

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noise a kaleidoscope I can

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giant kaleidoscope ah and it's engraved

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and that's going to be delivered two of

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those are gonna be delivered to michael

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only other producer I'm getting acid

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flashback since Buddhism the truth I'll

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be like John Lennon and yeah yeah wow

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look at that okay my son when that were

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last week's show and they said on stage

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is there room in your suitcase listen

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yeah two big heavy kaleidoscope but

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that's all in the past it's all of the

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colleges are we getting on with another

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show as usual just everything just keeps

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moving forward it is here this time

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based universe that we live in the time

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and space yeah University on this week's

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show I speak to Deborah hide who is the

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editor of the English skeptic magazine

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is that right yes she is an expert on

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things like vampires Oh have you be an

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expert in something oh that doesn't

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really exist we're closed is an expert

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on on being skeptical about vampires

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well not exactly just a whole mythology

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phone history right so we have a good

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chat coming up at the top of the show

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about vampire all we really did you see

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I can do it if also on this week's show

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it's dr. Richie reports now dr. Reggie

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is also reporting from QED in Manchester

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oh that's what I interviewed Debra

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height of course with Steven colgan who

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is an ex copper yeah who now works for

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Qi the TV show on the bill is he doing

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security but not exactly no no he's one

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of the writers I don't really searchers

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and he gave a wonderful talk all about

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sort of thinking outside the box coming

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up with interesting and different

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solutions to crime problem oh really and

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it was fascinating and at the end of his

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talk Richard Dawkins stood up from the

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audience and said I want to congratulate

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you and your wonderful talk is that

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that's not that that's what I do that's

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what about a testimonial what an

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interesting interview dr. H he has for

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us a little bit later in the show and

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she said I've stopped [\h__\h] she's been

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popping up and in the mainstream mean

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you're a bit lately dr. AJ year

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so he coming by almost as much of a

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legend as you were so many girls that

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from you no sir I come up I was at

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Sydney Morning Herald or something yeah

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she gets she's been really widely

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published that Leanne Diablo has a

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thinking on the next episode of the

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skeptics and there's a lot more news

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that I haven't got time to report this

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week about the things are concerned dr.

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H II goings-on and all sorts of things

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or Simon Singh and liable reforms and

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the fake bomb detectors all this news

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it's so hard to keep up little when

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you're in Oslo just living you know how

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when you're sworn in your in-laws low

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and Dublin is its living at large it's a

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bit difficult sounds next also we have

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on this week's show as we do we have had

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for the last six weeks or so a week in

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science from the Royal Institution of

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Australia and this week dr. Paul Willis

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is taking your holiday so we've got a

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feeling I stand in this week well she's

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a great understanding tenure Maya takes

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over this week for dr. Paul wills to

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give us a week in science week in

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science in a few minutes we're coming up

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later in the show and that's right a

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week in science and human it's got me up

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later in the shadow I'm with you sorry

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it's the jet lag whether you get that

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and then a strange spooky action with

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Maynard he's speaking to Scott bottle

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about weird government goings-on weird

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government guys on I'll say no more no I

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thought I think you should say it

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because it's it's a weird we got is a

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weird and if we say anything would

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probably start to get our phones tapped

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and things okay go again okay careful

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that's coming up at the round off the

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show but I tell you what what time is it

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in Oslo I don't have to can't forget no

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gasoline or elements or take czech

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republic or wherever the hell they shun

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bits on the other day I said where you

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from etude Slovakia yeah and and it's

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underneath that's right and he was

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telling me how Czechoslovakia used to

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used to be czech and slovak x mi became

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czechoslovakia and now let's check back

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here is that the czech republic like

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this that make their minds up or get

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along right

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what I tell you what just before we get

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on ponder the show all emotes where I

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was this is a university town it's like

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this unspoiled little paradise in the

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middle of Europe yeah unbelievable it's

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it's pleasant it's comments beautiful

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historic historical and if you find that

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quick that video clip that the bells

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listeners if you go to youtube and

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search for my youtube account which is

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skeptics own podcast one word you can

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see little videos of my adventures in

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Oslo and Dublin I've seen those and

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including one and you just skip for a

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little bit where I actually go up into a

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belfry and I stand right next to giant

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ringing bells check it out now and save

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it's amazing the richer because they do

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not have any Oh H&S or public liability

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atolls over there because these little

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kids we know II earmuffs on you're

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standing right next to Bill's get

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completely deaf within 20 years I within

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two years i had earplugs but if yes if

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listeners go to my youtube account and

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they can see that video and what's your

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brain turn to jelly freaked out well my

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brain turned to jelly a long time ago it

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seems to have today because we had to

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stop and start this is intro about dead

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tired trento no one knows like because

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you're awesome editing my everything but

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I've been falling asleep between texts

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are having little power naps but I think

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we should just get on with the show it's

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too packed with stuff to delay any

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further let's get on to the vampires

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hello Deborah hide hello Richard nice to

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catch up with you I saw your talk last

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year QED about werewolves and I saw a

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little bit of your talk this time

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because i was just fresh off the plane

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about vampires apart from the

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interesting topics you investigate

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you're also the right the editor of the

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skeptic or the what's the official title

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i'm the editor of the skeptic it

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skeptical UK as opposed to the American

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publication and oppose the Australian so

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a few magazines called The Skeptical

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that's cool um well what an interesting

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range of interests you have if I might

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say but i am particularly i do find

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those monster ones fascinating now

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monsters is a very crude term what is

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the correct term for these sort of

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things you study werewolves and vampires

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i call them on natural predators if you

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assume natural predators of things like

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lions and tigers then these are

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unnatural super natural predators in

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effect and an unnatural just as a little

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bit more wieldy verbally I like that I'm

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natural predators because it makes

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people think what yes yeah it's a catch

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in the brain network yeah I know the

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classics are the werewolves and you get

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a great talk on the world was the

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vampires what else do we have well there

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are all sorts of draining vampiric type

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creatures from all over the world every

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folklore has them really for a natural

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predator I also count which is in there

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because even though they are mortal they

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are still in league with supernatural

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powers therefore the unmet that's where

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the unnatural element comes in so

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possibly next year I'll do a tour on

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witchcraft just started the vampires so

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how interesting how interesting I did

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that wouldn't have crossed my mind

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because when i think of vampires I

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beside i don't think the human are they

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and werewolves aren't human but which is

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i tend to think or more which is a human

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but vampires are ex human they're dead

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humans why and there is something of a

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crossover between werewolf and vampire

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folklore as well sometimes in the

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Balkans they thought that a person who

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is a werewolf in life would become a

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vampire after death so it's any

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supernatural element that would then go

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on to attack live human beings I think I

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would count in unnatural predators so

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that's that's think the key definition

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there it's it's some unworldly creature

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that preys on humans on human beings and

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any human beings yes the the patterns

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that we tend to see with deaths that are

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blamed on our natural predators as

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premature death and this is pretty much

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in in pre-industrial societies because

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we're very good at dealing with

269
00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:53,710
premature death these days most people

270
00:11:00,060 --> 00:10:55,420
get to their threescore years and ten

271
00:11:03,780 --> 00:11:00,070
but we see people who committed suicide

272
00:11:06,510 --> 00:11:03,790
or children who died or women who died

273
00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:06,520
in childbirth categories of person like

274
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:08,350
that and especially people who died in

275
00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:12,160
epidemics that is when communities seem

276
00:11:17,130 --> 00:11:13,990
to come up with these supernatural

277
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:17,140
explanations and it's as though there's

278
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:18,850
a kind of an urgency in it they people

279
00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:20,530
can accept that if somebody dies after

280
00:11:24,030 --> 00:11:22,120
they performed all of their rituals of

281
00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:24,040
life and they've done their thing but

282
00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:25,690
it's unpleasant but it's acceptable

283
00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:27,310
whereas if people are cut off in their

284
00:11:30,810 --> 00:11:28,990
prime there seems to be some sort of

285
00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:30,820
intuitive sense that it's it's

286
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:33,040
unpleasant it's wrong and so they look

287
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:36,490
for a supernatural yeah so they look for

288
00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:39,250
a supernatural culprit and then and

289
00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:41,140
there will be quite complex ideas about

290
00:11:45,510 --> 00:11:44,140
how this works how metaphysical ideas

291
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:45,520
about how the universe works and how

292
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:47,890
these creatures work and in turn what

293
00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:49,690
the human beings can do to defend

294
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:52,350
themselves against them and sometimes

295
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:55,600
you simply get that the scapegoating

296
00:11:59,640 --> 00:11:57,760
relief that you get from rituals

297
00:12:02,940 --> 00:11:59,650
sometimes there's no practical use at

298
00:12:04,890 --> 00:12:02,950
all but quite often especially with

299
00:12:06,630 --> 00:12:04,900
vampires I think that you find that

300
00:12:09,090 --> 00:12:06,640
there are

301
00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:09,100
you've got people coming up with a kind

302
00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:11,230
of intuitive Santa science of what to do

303
00:12:17,340 --> 00:12:13,660
with bodies in epidemics for example

304
00:12:19,230 --> 00:12:17,350
right so certainly in our history there

305
00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:19,240
was no unusual occurrence second

306
00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:21,310
epidemic something to them one of the

307
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:23,110
things I virtually always say in any

308
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:25,210
talk I do is that we have to get into

309
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:27,130
the minds of our ancestors and that is a

310
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:28,720
very difficult thing to do because we

311
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:31,060
live in a very very different world and

312
00:12:35,790 --> 00:12:33,130
in a world where you would have to be

313
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:35,800
philosophical about losing a certain

314
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:37,930
number of your children in a world where

315
00:12:42,450 --> 00:12:40,510
as a woman of reproductive age you would

316
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:42,460
have to be reasonably philosophical

317
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:46,050
about dying in childbirth and where

318
00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:47,920
epidemics would come along very

319
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:50,980
regularly then people were people were

320
00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:52,930
just more superstitious because life was

321
00:12:57,690 --> 00:12:55,660
more tenuous it was very difficult and I

322
00:12:59,550 --> 00:12:57,700
think it's only when we really really

323
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:59,560
realize that that we can get into the

324
00:13:03,510 --> 00:13:01,600
minds of our ancestors so what do you

325
00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:03,520
think is the persistence with the

326
00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:04,780
fascination of these creatures

327
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:08,020
especially vampires in our society the

328
00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:10,450
thing about vampires is i love i love

329
00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:12,520
horror movies and i probably would it is

330
00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:15,430
it is i love the literary variety the

331
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:17,350
literary and film variety of vampire but

332
00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:19,510
they aren't very very different during

333
00:13:26,010 --> 00:13:24,340
the 1900s people jun 18 in 1900's there

334
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:26,020
was the Romantic literature and and

335
00:13:31,050 --> 00:13:29,650
these themes began was started to use

336
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:31,060
for something other than their original

337
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:36,130
folkloric intent and certainly they the

338
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:38,290
vampire changed it wasn't a smelly

339
00:13:42,330 --> 00:13:40,240
disgusting old corpse anymore they could

340
00:13:45,150 --> 00:13:42,340
be you've got your demon brooding lover

341
00:13:46,410 --> 00:13:45,160
archetype and so even though I love this

342
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:46,420
stuff for entertainment purposes I

343
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:47,920
wouldn't count myself as an expert on

344
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:49,810
the literary vampire because it really

345
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:52,330
is an area especially all of its own and

346
00:13:57,270 --> 00:13:55,330
because it's such a useful metaphor and

347
00:13:59,520 --> 00:13:57,280
it's such a potent kind of archetype I

348
00:14:02,340 --> 00:13:59,530
think it's just very very flexible we

349
00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:02,350
can use it for whatever we like if we

350
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:04,270
can use it in normal circumstances and

351
00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:07,120
even today Oh even today and the modern

352
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:08,860
vampire is slick and cool

353
00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:11,110
and handsome and and all the rest of it

354
00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:14,710
and can be won by the love of a young

355
00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:17,200
girl yes they're very aristocratic they

356
00:14:21,510 --> 00:14:18,760
lived by themselves they are very

357
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:21,520
powerful personally as well as

358
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:24,360
physically so it's been said that

359
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,010
vampires are aristocrats and zombies are

360
00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:29,920
a load of shambling proletariat at the

361
00:14:34,670 --> 00:14:32,680
mall we could just thoughtlessly

362
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:34,680
consuming everything in their path and

363
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:36,610
that's the certainly both of those

364
00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:39,130
allegories have been used in fiction so

365
00:14:43,950 --> 00:14:41,430
we get you get different things out of

366
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:43,960
out of these supernatural archetypes now

367
00:14:48,390 --> 00:14:46,510
you certainly do but I think back to a

368
00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:48,400
movie like nuts for Agilent where the

369
00:14:55,860 --> 00:14:52,660
vampire is a hideous old creature truly

370
00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:55,870
horrifying and then we think of the more

371
00:15:00,270 --> 00:14:58,210
comic one strike from Buffy or the was

372
00:15:02,340 --> 00:15:00,280
it the blue moon the twilight the

373
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:02,350
twilight series here we come to handsome

374
00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:06,160
young men yeah well yes I suppose so I'm

375
00:15:09,810 --> 00:15:08,020
really really not a fan of Twilight i

376
00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:09,820
think i think the female parent is

377
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:12,280
extremely passive um the thing about

378
00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:14,410
Nosferatu nigh use that in my talk is

379
00:15:19,770 --> 00:15:17,230
not Ferrari was inspired by Dracula in

380
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:19,780
fact the prints were nearly lost because

381
00:15:24,270 --> 00:15:22,530
Dracula sorry Bram Stoker's estate

382
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:24,280
thought that the work was plagiarized

383
00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:29,010
which it was and in Dracula Dracula

384
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:32,950
brings a plague with him and in reply he

385
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:36,490
brings a play that yeah and when count

386
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:39,040
or lock turns up in Nosferatu he also

387
00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:41,110
brings a plague to the town so in both

388
00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:44,110
of those respects they are actually very

389
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:47,350
traditional folk vampires I suppose with

390
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:48,970
Dracula you've got the kind of half and

391
00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:50,410
half because he's still tall and

392
00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:52,030
aristocratic and handsome whereas aulakh

393
00:15:56,010 --> 00:15:53,590
is not a nice-looking fella he looks

394
00:15:58,410 --> 00:15:56,020
like a demon it's it's certainly a major

395
00:16:01,080 --> 00:15:58,420
point I think now is the idea and we get

396
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:01,090
bit what we said earlier vampires a tall

397
00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:03,970
and handsome and groovy you know all the

398
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:05,190
rest of it

399
00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:08,850
and which I always judge as with me

400
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:11,100
because I think of a vampire's old

401
00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:14,730
hideous smelly maybe death yes the idea

402
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:17,160
is that they are death yes their death

403
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:19,530
and they there is a sexual element to

404
00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:21,570
them in the original folklore not always

405
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:24,870
but sometimes and there are certain

406
00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:26,610
types of Romanian vampire which are

407
00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:31,230
thought to possibly come back and worry

408
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:33,060
their wives to death with their sexual

409
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:35,940
demands so in that case yes you haven't

410
00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:38,490
got a gorgeous attractive Bill Compton

411
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:41,220
from True Blood type of lover you just

412
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:43,170
have this rotten insistent thing that

413
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:45,870
won't go away and vampires can produce

414
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:47,910
offspring and vampires can produce

415
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:50,240
offspring I thought okay I guess with

416
00:16:54,740 --> 00:16:52,710
thinking about different legends and

417
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,750
pains yeah those types of vampires can

418
00:16:57,830 --> 00:16:55,920
produce offspring which are actually

419
00:16:59,960 --> 00:16:57,840
very good at detecting vampires for

420
00:17:01,970 --> 00:16:59,970
heaven's good and I think there's a

421
00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:01,980
certain sexual element in there the

422
00:17:08,420 --> 00:17:05,150
Dracula story I know because he had

423
00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:08,430
wives he's three women with him yes

424
00:17:12,590 --> 00:17:10,560
women why yeah whatever and they were

425
00:17:15,170 --> 00:17:12,600
vampires to it yes they were they were

426
00:17:16,699 --> 00:17:15,180
and most filmic representations of that

427
00:17:19,819 --> 00:17:16,709
I'm thinking in Francis Ford Coppola as

428
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:19,829
Dracula is you know they're very very

429
00:17:25,550 --> 00:17:22,890
sexual very sexy yes yes

430
00:17:28,220 --> 00:17:25,560
which is again when you think what they

431
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:28,230
should be is a representation of corpses

432
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:31,200
and death and horror it's odd to think I

433
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:34,890
guess if a vampire can be a male vampire

434
00:17:38,750 --> 00:17:37,110
can be hip and cool and look great I

435
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:38,760
suppose a female vampire couldn't be

436
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:40,530
sexy and young and all the rest of it I

437
00:17:45,890 --> 00:17:43,860
guess so what am I health one of my

438
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:45,900
favorites is dusk till dawn I love that

439
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:47,130
movie and you've got satanica

440
00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:49,650
pandemonium play my diet I've done the

441
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:51,870
casino that's till dawn dusk till dawn

442
00:17:57,710 --> 00:17:55,950
is my favorite two movies it really is

443
00:17:59,930 --> 00:17:57,720
in two parts it was directed by robert

444
00:18:03,140 --> 00:17:59,940
robert rodriguez but it really bears the

445
00:18:04,340 --> 00:18:03,150
mark of quentin tarantino i'm surprised

446
00:18:05,870 --> 00:18:04,350
i've missed it though i'm a fan of that

447
00:18:08,210 --> 00:18:05,880
sort of stuff yeah it starts out as a

448
00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:08,220
road movie and then ends up Harvey

449
00:18:14,420 --> 00:18:10,860
Keitel as well and George Clooney and it

450
00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:14,430
ends up it's just just a big ol vampire

451
00:18:18,290 --> 00:18:16,380
schlock fest everybody's banging states

452
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:18,300
and everybody else it's really really

453
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:20,550
good good fun are the good old days the

454
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:22,230
good old days of banging a stake into a

455
00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:25,980
vampire where have they gone well well

456
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:28,470
what a fascinating area you've you're

457
00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:32,250
investigating so vampires werewolves and

458
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,160
now witchcraft what could possibly be

459
00:18:38,890 --> 00:18:37,200
next I suppose it's endless it is

460
00:18:41,780 --> 00:18:38,900
endless there are always ways of

461
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:41,790
tackling this particular side of the

462
00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:46,710
human psyche and I hope I never ever get

463
00:18:49,550 --> 00:18:48,030
to the end of it I hope there's always

464
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:49,560
something to do because I just love it

465
00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:51,480
so much well it comes across in your

466
00:18:56,590 --> 00:18:53,430
talks i'ma say you get very entertaining

467
00:18:59,090 --> 00:18:56,600
talks and this I find the subject

468
00:19:00,620 --> 00:18:59,100
fascinating i'm sure a lot of your

469
00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:00,630
audience do too though absolutely

470
00:19:05,789 --> 00:19:02,110
riveted by learning about

471
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:05,799
the folklore and the so on of werewolves

472
00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:07,090
and I can't speak too much about the

473
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:09,460
vampires because as I said I because of

474
00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:10,960
my flight I missed most of you talk but

475
00:19:16,049 --> 00:19:13,030
I certainly remember your werewolf talk

476
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:16,059
from a year ago there was I had a

477
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:17,890
backhanded compliment from that werewolf

478
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:20,049
talk because I think a lot of skeptics

479
00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:21,370
here at this convention couldn't really

480
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:23,320
see how skepticism and werewolves went

481
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,570
together and just as luck would have it

482
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:27,760
I was programmed so that I was the first

483
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:29,530
session on Saturday and there was

484
00:19:35,159 --> 00:19:31,330
nothing else going on at the same time

485
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:35,169
so if anybody wanted to be at QED I was

486
00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:36,720
I was all that was available and

487
00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:39,340
somebody said on Twitter I'm very glad I

488
00:19:44,370 --> 00:19:41,140
watched that because I would never have

489
00:19:46,919 --> 00:19:44,380
chosen it and so they said that they

490
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:46,929
liked it but if they couldn't see the

491
00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:49,090
obvious sales point before they'd

492
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:51,100
actually been and I hope very much that

493
00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:52,960
now that they've seen the werewolves one

494
00:19:58,110 --> 00:19:56,350
that the people who saw that will come

495
00:20:00,360 --> 00:19:58,120
on to a vampire's one later which is one

496
00:20:02,430 --> 00:20:00,370
or whatever knowing that it's that kind

497
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:02,440
of angle I'm sure they will well look

498
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:04,510
every success with the the skeptic that

499
00:20:07,919 --> 00:20:06,730
the UK magazine it's a wonderful

500
00:20:11,490 --> 00:20:07,929
magazine that you had some out there

501
00:20:12,810 --> 00:20:11,500
earlier which you were promoting I like

502
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:12,820
the covers the cover is always very

503
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:15,250
entertaining that the UK skeptic

504
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:17,230
magazine the covers are absolutely also

505
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:19,510
went very very lucky to have a guy very

506
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:21,280
talented artist called Neil Davis on the

507
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:23,710
team and he just he does us proud every

508
00:20:27,570 --> 00:20:26,290
single issue and testing ever hide thank

509
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:27,580
you very much thank you very much

510
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:42,730
hey Kenny oh hi Tom I see this Park yeah

511
00:20:48,670 --> 00:20:46,240
yes great weather oh look a unicorn

512
00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:48,680
unicorn there are no such things as

513
00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:51,830
unicorns silly yes there is no there

514
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:54,020
isn't hey guys what are you arguing

515
00:20:59,890 --> 00:20:57,200
about Tom Hanks unicorns are real hey so

516
00:21:02,650 --> 00:20:59,900
are let's look this up in the skeptics

517
00:21:04,750 --> 00:21:02,660
dictionary the what how can we do this

518
00:21:06,430 --> 00:21:04,760
in this bar there is no computer here

519
00:21:08,530 --> 00:21:06,440
you guys probably don't know about the

520
00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:08,540
skeptics dictionary app available now

521
00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:11,420
for iPhone iPad and iPod touch in the

522
00:21:16,750 --> 00:21:14,900
app store Wow cool the app lets you

523
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:16,760
access all of the great skeptics

524
00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:18,470
dictionary articles when you're on the

525
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:21,500
go here let me look up unicorns found

526
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,410
cool Kenny prepare to be proven wrong it

527
00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:26,720
says here the Unicorn is a creature from

528
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:30,500
fables aha actually I see now that

529
00:21:34,780 --> 00:21:31,970
someone just dumped their ice cream cone

530
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:34,790
on that horse's head thanks skeptics

531
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:43,090
welcome to a week in science from our

532
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:45,670
iOS coming up in this week's episode

533
00:21:56,580 --> 00:21:48,650
Australia's prehistoric population lab

534
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:00,370
in Australia we now have 23 million

535
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:05,270
people make that 23 million and one so

536
00:22:10,180 --> 00:22:06,710
it's timely to look back at our

537
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:10,190
prehistoric population radiocarbon dates

538
00:22:14,190 --> 00:22:12,170
from thousands of archaeological sites

539
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:14,200
were compiled to determine that only

540
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,330
1000 to 2000 people formed Australia's

541
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:19,760
founding population this initial small

542
00:22:24,550 --> 00:22:21,650
group arrived about 50,000 years ago

543
00:22:26,620 --> 00:22:24,560
then grew to approximately 1.1 million

544
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:26,630
people at the time of European contact

545
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:29,210
the data also revealed the impacts of

546
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:31,370
climatic events and other factors on

547
00:22:37,030 --> 00:22:33,650
Australia's first inhabitants and now

548
00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:37,040
for science headlines in 30 seconds low

549
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:39,230
fiber diets and high fat intakes may

550
00:22:44,050 --> 00:22:41,450
worsen asthma by increasing airway

551
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:44,060
inflammation and reducing lung function

552
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:46,250
we're finally saying farewell to genital

553
00:22:51,310 --> 00:22:48,710
warts with diagnosis dropping up to

554
00:22:53,620 --> 00:22:51,320
fifty nine percent since the HPV vaccine

555
00:22:55,660 --> 00:22:53,630
was introduced five years ago marijuana

556
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:55,670
pills provide more effective pain relief

557
00:22:59,500 --> 00:22:58,010
than smoking the drugs and scientists

558
00:23:01,390 --> 00:22:59,510
have used genetically engineered

559
00:23:03,490 --> 00:23:01,400
bacteria to create tetryl in the lab

560
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:03,500
that's identical to what you buy at the

561
00:23:08,620 --> 00:23:07,010
pump three studies this week have

562
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:08,630
provided further insight into our

563
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:11,570
changing climate first up a compilation

564
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:14,480
of over 500 climate records revealed

565
00:23:20,670 --> 00:23:18,080
that 1972 2000 was the warmest period

566
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,680
globally for the past 14 hundred years

567
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:23,120
meanwhile a second study found that

568
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:25,490
around twenty percent of all land will

569
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:27,440
change climate zone by the end of this

570
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:29,930
century increasing the risk of species

571
00:23:34,570 --> 00:23:32,630
extinction and finally changing rainfall

572
00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:34,580
patterns in the tropics may not depend

573
00:23:38,770 --> 00:23:36,800
on surface temperature but instead be a

574
00:23:41,539 --> 00:23:38,780
direct result of increasing atmospheric

575
00:23:44,509 --> 00:23:41,549
carbon dioxide

576
00:23:47,149 --> 00:23:44,519
and don't forget Monday's vaccination

577
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:47,159
cafe in Adelaide get your flu jab for

578
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:48,570
just ten dollars and chat with

579
00:23:56,109 --> 00:23:50,730
immunology researchers over a free

580
00:23:58,249 --> 00:23:56,119
coffee info @ ra org dot au / immunize

581
00:24:00,799 --> 00:23:58,259
that's been the highlights of another

582
00:24:02,810 --> 00:24:00,809
big week in science for more information

583
00:24:08,779 --> 00:24:02,820
and other science news check out the

584
00:24:10,879 --> 00:24:08,789
Arias website RI aus org dot a you where

585
00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:10,889
you can also sign up for notifications

586
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:13,830
of future episodes you can follow a week

587
00:24:19,009 --> 00:24:15,570
in science on twitter using the hashtag

588
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:19,019
week inside I'm Tony Amaya and on behalf

589
00:24:37,470 --> 00:24:30,450
of the Arias team see you next week in a

590
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:45,299
or messages are a scene for beyond

591
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:48,629
and reason is sidelined for rational

592
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:57,999
oh please we pair stand between what

593
00:25:02,769 --> 00:25:01,039
date is it 787 thing this is impressive

594
00:25:04,389 --> 00:25:02,779
it's these artists impressions they're

595
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:04,399
not their photographs of Chinese anthem

596
00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:07,970
it's not we are not well received good

597
00:25:10,899 --> 00:25:09,230
God we're fully don't discuss

598
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:10,909
cryptozoology on the show very often

599
00:25:15,249 --> 00:25:12,799
because we don't know anything about how

600
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:15,259
the truth the price gets lower and lower

601
00:25:20,550 --> 00:25:16,970
and lower and then he hits a ceiling

602
00:25:24,730 --> 00:25:22,690
skepta to the K for the Merseyside

603
00:25:32,170 --> 00:25:24,740
skeptics society find us on iTunes or

604
00:25:37,230 --> 00:25:32,180
you know don't now it's time for dr.

605
00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:40,720
hello Steve colgan now you have a name

606
00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:42,260
that's familiar to me but you're not the

607
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:44,360
actor so called the no no no let's sleep

608
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:46,370
Coogan I'll seed cake yes serious

609
00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:48,530
difference in bank balance okay but one

610
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:51,860
little different one Lissa so you gave

611
00:25:58,090 --> 00:25:55,640
us the very first talk of QED yesterday

612
00:26:00,850 --> 00:25:58,100
you do entitled The Skeptical Bobby easy

613
00:26:03,490 --> 00:26:00,860
because you used to be a cop ID yes yes

614
00:26:06,370 --> 00:26:03,500
it is about your J because you gave an

615
00:26:08,020 --> 00:26:06,380
interesting story about how you became a

616
00:26:10,810 --> 00:26:08,030
policeman and it involves drinking in a

617
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:10,820
note to your dad that right yeah yeah I

618
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:13,810
was a bit of a sort of waster at school

619
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:18,290
I didn't try quite hard enough I've been

620
00:26:22,030 --> 00:26:19,610
part of it was owned the school I went

621
00:26:24,610 --> 00:26:22,040
to sort of up until about the age of 11

622
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:24,620
was a very small little sort of

623
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:26,000
independent school where they had a lot

624
00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:28,130
of time for the pupils so by the time we

625
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,480
moved to a different town I went to a

626
00:26:33,670 --> 00:26:32,240
big sort of state comprehensive I found

627
00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:33,680
I was a little bit ahead of some of the

628
00:26:38,410 --> 00:26:35,390
other kids and I got bored very quickly

629
00:26:41,770 --> 00:26:38,420
and I was disruptive and I was a bit of

630
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:41,780
an ass frankly and and yeah and it meant

631
00:26:45,370 --> 00:26:43,490
that by the time we got to the end of

632
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:45,380
sort of state exams you know at the age

633
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:48,110
of 15 16 I had Percy no qualifications

634
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:49,520
all my friends will go off to uni and I

635
00:26:53,530 --> 00:26:50,330
thought what are we going to do in my

636
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:53,540
life and I was I was working as a sort

637
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:54,890
of trainee chef in a restaurant so I

638
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:56,570
thought catering College won't be

639
00:27:00,040 --> 00:26:57,650
something can I had a bit of an aptitude

640
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:00,050
for food which is quite evident if you

641
00:27:04,930 --> 00:27:01,310
could see the shape of me he'd know

642
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:04,940
early and I was also quite artistic you

643
00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:06,410
know I'd always done the only

644
00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:07,790
qualifications I'll actually got its

645
00:27:11,740 --> 00:27:10,220
cool with art one so I applied to an art

646
00:27:14,170 --> 00:27:11,750
college based on my portfolio and got it

647
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:14,180
so I was sitting there thinking I had a

648
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:16,250
I had a definite thing the catering

649
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:17,510
College different thing for art college

650
00:27:20,620 --> 00:27:19,250
but I had sort of nine months to wait

651
00:27:22,690 --> 00:27:20,630
until the two and then my 18th birthday

652
00:27:24,850 --> 00:27:22,700
turned up and my dad who was a homicide

653
00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:24,860
detective took me out for a year a

654
00:27:28,450 --> 00:27:26,990
couple of beers at the local police club

655
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:28,460
but I woke up the next morning with a

656
00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:30,320
note in my pocket where I'd apparently

657
00:27:36,180 --> 00:27:33,220
not only accepted but also typed

658
00:27:38,669 --> 00:27:36,190
at a contract saying that I would

659
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,679
actually try being a cop for for six

660
00:27:42,690 --> 00:27:40,720
months to the tune of 50 quid if I did

661
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:42,700
it and I thought what I got six months

662
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:44,559
to waste why not i thought i'm going to

663
00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:45,850
do it looks like we're up in cornwall

664
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:47,260
which is you know as far from

665
00:27:51,659 --> 00:27:49,530
civilization as you can get in the UK I

666
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:51,669
thought what I'm going to do six months

667
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,110
as a cup I'll do it in London so I'll

668
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:55,840
see some gigs visitors and galleries six

669
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:57,610
months kinda turned into 30 years so

670
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:00,640
yeah so tell us about your the idea

671
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:02,530
behind your being skeptical in the place

672
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:04,240
for so some of the ideas you thought

673
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:06,250
were particularly working well and you

674
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:08,890
apply the skepticism to the way the

675
00:28:14,029 --> 00:28:11,350
place force works absolutely I mean the

676
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:14,039
fact that i had that rather sort of

677
00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:16,240
wrong reason for joining the police in

678
00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:17,740
the first place it never occurred to me

679
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:19,270
to be a cop I'd probably expect I'd

680
00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:20,590
grown up with cops my whole life and my

681
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:23,140
dad being one and I sort of approached

682
00:28:25,890 --> 00:28:24,730
the whole thing a little bit

683
00:28:28,169 --> 00:28:25,900
tongue-in-cheek thinking I'm only going

684
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:28,179
to be here six months so I you know I

685
00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:29,679
had this idea in my head to anything I

686
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:31,150
did wouldn't affect my career because I

687
00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:32,770
wasn't going to have a career and I

688
00:28:37,159 --> 00:28:35,500
turned up a sort of Hendon which is the

689
00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:37,169
big Police Training College in London

690
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,880
and almost immediately from day one I

691
00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:41,919
thought it's doesn't ring true because

692
00:28:45,870 --> 00:28:43,780
because everything I'd ever seen about

693
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:45,880
policing setting coming from sort of

694
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:47,650
small communities in Cornwall and

695
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:49,210
everything indeed they were telling me

696
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:50,470
about the history of the police was all

697
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,090
about that the police was all about

698
00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:54,880
preservation of public tranquility

699
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,980
keeping people safe preventing crime

700
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,200
from happening and yet everything we

701
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:01,360
were being taught outside of the actual

702
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:03,250
written word and the sort of mission

703
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:04,570
statement of what police is all about

704
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,490
was about catching bad guys it was all

705
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:08,320
about catch the bad guys this is this is

706
00:29:11,399 --> 00:29:09,520
how you catch them these are the laws

707
00:29:12,899 --> 00:29:11,409
used to capture this is how you you hold

708
00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:12,909
on to them this is a hang-up and this is

709
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,230
a push them on the ground that's a

710
00:29:18,779 --> 00:29:16,559
button to the court system and I thought

711
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:18,789
sure the emphasis should be on teaching

712
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:21,190
me things that I can go out and so

713
00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:23,650
disseminate to the public about how to

714
00:29:26,970 --> 00:29:25,030
make themselves less likely to be the

715
00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:26,980
victims of crime or how to make their

716
00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:28,870
property less attractive to people who

717
00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:30,460
want to steal it will damage it and

718
00:29:34,260 --> 00:29:31,720
there was nothing there was nothing to

719
00:29:36,270 --> 00:29:34,270
do with prevention so almost immediately

720
00:29:38,970 --> 00:29:36,280
I hit the street I was in conflict with

721
00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:38,980
with a sort of the ways that we did

722
00:29:42,570 --> 00:29:41,320
things I mean that that that skeptical

723
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:42,580
thing that's always been my head sorting

724
00:29:46,029 --> 00:29:44,110
to make me to the challenge teachers in

725
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:46,039
school which is why I was so popular

726
00:29:51,379 --> 00:29:47,970
it's this idea that you know if

727
00:29:52,879 --> 00:29:51,389
something's wrong I feel the need to not

728
00:29:54,469 --> 00:29:52,889
challenge it in an aggressive way but

729
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:54,479
say is that really right or is there a

730
00:29:59,239 --> 00:29:57,210
better way of doing it and and I said I

731
00:30:02,359 --> 00:29:59,249
sort of hit the street running as it

732
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:02,369
were thinking I want to do this my way

733
00:30:05,570 --> 00:30:03,840
because I think it's better which is

734
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:05,580
incredibly arrogant you know I'm happy

735
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:07,710
to admit very arrogant it is but I

736
00:30:12,169 --> 00:30:10,159
started getting some really good results

737
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:12,179
although that wasn't reflected in what

738
00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:14,340
the police thought of me because they

739
00:30:18,379 --> 00:30:16,470
didn't like you much no no they really

740
00:30:21,169 --> 00:30:18,389
didn't and my reports were sort of quite

741
00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:21,179
damning and part of the problem is the

742
00:30:27,499 --> 00:30:23,220
methods of measurement because it's

743
00:30:29,479 --> 00:30:27,509
really easy to measure yeah busy corner

744
00:30:30,649 --> 00:30:29,489
precisely how many biological how many

745
00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:30,659
people you've stopped and searched in

746
00:30:34,339 --> 00:30:32,129
the street how many arrests you've had

747
00:30:36,049 --> 00:30:34,349
how many successful prosecutions prison

748
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:36,059
population all those things are really

749
00:30:40,609 --> 00:30:39,570
easy measurable things where's

750
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:40,619
prevention is a really difficult thing

751
00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:42,809
to measure because you can't measure

752
00:30:48,499 --> 00:30:45,960
what if you know and if I did an

753
00:30:50,989 --> 00:30:48,509
activity which I was pretty damn sure

754
00:30:53,419 --> 00:30:50,999
would actually disrupt the activities of

755
00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:53,429
a burger or a car thief and the figures

756
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:55,769
dropped even though it was it was sort

757
00:30:58,700 --> 00:30:56,970
of fairly obvious and blatantly obvious

758
00:31:00,649 --> 00:30:58,710
to anyone around me that that my

759
00:31:02,509 --> 00:31:00,659
activities have caused that trying to

760
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:02,519
prove on paper takes a lot of time

761
00:31:05,710 --> 00:31:04,080
effort it can be done but it takes a lot

762
00:31:07,580 --> 00:31:05,720
of time and effort and there's never the

763
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:07,590
time and there's certainly never the

764
00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:08,970
effort because you're on to the next

765
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:11,700
thing and so yeah it did set me in

766
00:31:14,749 --> 00:31:13,710
conflict with the system because even

767
00:31:15,889 --> 00:31:14,759
though i was getting results i was

768
00:31:17,659 --> 00:31:15,899
getting nice letters from the public

769
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:17,669
saying yeah we really appreciate what

770
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:19,470
the offers are done for us and you know

771
00:31:23,539 --> 00:31:21,210
I've no felt so safe living where i live

772
00:31:25,219 --> 00:31:23,549
on paper my figures were absolutely

773
00:31:27,739 --> 00:31:25,229
appalling I was like the most idiotic

774
00:31:29,479 --> 00:31:27,749
cop in the world you know cone so yeah

775
00:31:31,219 --> 00:31:29,489
so tell me some of the interventions

776
00:31:33,919 --> 00:31:31,229
that you discussed yesterday I mean for

777
00:31:36,379 --> 00:31:33,929
example you talked about preventing post

778
00:31:38,989 --> 00:31:36,389
during and graffitiing with a simple way

779
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,999
of changing a fence slightly absolutely

780
00:31:42,019 --> 00:31:40,200
well as I mentioned yesterday that

781
00:31:43,999 --> 00:31:42,029
there's three parts to every sort of

782
00:31:45,979 --> 00:31:44,009
problem you know whether it's a crime or

783
00:31:47,479 --> 00:31:45,989
or a community issue there's someone of

784
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:47,489
something causing it there's there's

785
00:31:50,479 --> 00:31:49,200
someone of something affected by it and

786
00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:50,489
there's a place in time and space where

787
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:52,169
those two come together and all the

788
00:31:55,399 --> 00:31:53,730
focus in sort of traditional policing is

789
00:31:56,779 --> 00:31:55,409
that is on the what's causing it it's

790
00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:56,789
all about catching the bad guy taking

791
00:31:59,690 --> 00:31:57,270
them out the pic

792
00:32:01,670 --> 00:31:59,700
but as I said you know if the conditions

793
00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:01,680
at the site are still the same and the

794
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:04,320
potential victims or the object of their

795
00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:07,500
desire isn't altered or modified in some

796
00:32:10,550 --> 00:32:08,820
way they're still going to be a desire

797
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:10,560
to Nick them and the location still

798
00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:11,610
going to be suitable for that to happen

799
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:14,460
by some other properties also you take

800
00:32:18,860 --> 00:32:15,690
the bad guy out you create a job

801
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,870
opportunity new bad guys like it if you

802
00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:20,640
work on all three sides though then you

803
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:22,860
kind of have a much better chance of

804
00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:24,210
solving the problem and and

805
00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:25,500
traditionally we haven't done this

806
00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:27,000
because cops don't think about modifying

807
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:28,590
locations because their job is to catch

808
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:30,330
the bad guys you know they don't think

809
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:33,510
about educating the public or talking to

810
00:32:38,090 --> 00:32:35,910
designers about products to make them

811
00:32:39,980 --> 00:32:38,100
less you know suitable for stealing

812
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:39,990
because that's not a cop's job but I

813
00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:42,270
maintain that is a cop I think yeah it

814
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,940
absolutely is or even if it's not the

815
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:46,320
cops jobs actually do that it's the

816
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:47,850
coffee shop to go and talk to the people

817
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:49,590
whose job it is and say listen have you

818
00:32:52,730 --> 00:32:51,120
thought about doing this to your product

819
00:32:54,140 --> 00:32:52,740
so it's less likely to be nicked have

820
00:32:56,150 --> 00:32:54,150
you thought about changing this location

821
00:32:58,780 --> 00:32:56,160
so it's less likely to attract burglars

822
00:33:01,310 --> 00:32:58,790
or robbers or whatever happens to me and

823
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:01,320
yeah that's exactly what I do it would

824
00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:03,090
it would be a case of you know posters

825
00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:04,380
and graffiti and that's something

826
00:33:08,270 --> 00:33:05,940
there's very very simple things you can

827
00:33:09,860 --> 00:33:08,280
do inexpensive things you can do to a

828
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:09,870
location to make it less attractive to

829
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:12,690
people who do graffiti and or even

830
00:33:15,740 --> 00:33:14,130
difficult to do it I mean I mentioned

831
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:15,750
yesterday putting diagonal battens on

832
00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:17,490
wooden hoardings makes it very difficult

833
00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:19,350
sticker poster to it yeah which I think

834
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:20,760
it's a brilliant doesn't cause nothing

835
00:33:25,550 --> 00:33:22,980
yeah it makes it harder to tagging or

836
00:33:27,290 --> 00:33:25,560
that's right and he says to anyone who

837
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:27,300
lives in that area oh this must be a lot

838
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,370
area they look after it yeah and that

839
00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:31,200
that helps hash prices it helps the

840
00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:33,270
sense of sort of people feel safer in an

841
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:35,190
area like that and the bad guys look at

842
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:36,810
it say all this is quite well maintained

843
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:38,970
that must be cameras they must be they

844
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:40,050
must have what they call a capable

845
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:41,490
Guardian that's the technical term refer

846
00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:42,510
there must be something here that's

847
00:33:45,980 --> 00:33:44,400
looking after this area maybe I'll go

848
00:33:47,870 --> 00:33:45,990
find someone's a bit safer you know yeah

849
00:33:49,730 --> 00:33:47,880
it's not rocket science and really isn't

850
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:49,740
so what about the the story you told me

851
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:51,330
about the vomit and the prostitutes you

852
00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:52,650
have to tell our listings about that

853
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:55,620
well absolutely I said this is justice

854
00:33:58,730 --> 00:33:56,850
is nothing to do with me when I'm going

855
00:34:00,170 --> 00:33:58,740
to started looking up and trying to find

856
00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:00,180
examples of other people doing the same

857
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:03,030
thing as I was first of all I found that

858
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:05,850
within my own police service I mean that

859
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:07,290
the Met Police in London

860
00:34:11,330 --> 00:34:09,090
it is i think it's the big as police

861
00:34:14,810 --> 00:34:11,340
force in the world there's about 50,000

862
00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:14,820
staff and about 35 of those and cops but

863
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,480
you know you're dealing with a

864
00:34:19,250 --> 00:34:17,520
population of 9 million which increases

865
00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:19,260
to something like 12 million during the

866
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:20,550
day where the commuters come in when the

867
00:34:23,690 --> 00:34:22,169
tourists come in as well as it meant so

868
00:34:27,110 --> 00:34:23,700
it's actually not a lot of cops for that

869
00:34:29,780 --> 00:34:27,120
many people but I'd started finding

870
00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:29,790
other cops in the Met who thought the

871
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:32,400
same as I did so you naturally migrated

872
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:33,690
towards them we've got matey with him

873
00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:35,910
any swap stories by emails in size and

874
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:37,020
then I started looking around for other

875
00:34:42,590 --> 00:34:39,840
examples around the world and around the

876
00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:42,600
country and even in other areas of

877
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:45,150
interest and yeah I started finding all

878
00:34:50,510 --> 00:34:49,110
sorts of weird things like a researcher

879
00:34:52,370 --> 00:34:50,520
from Oxford University who's been

880
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:52,380
dealing with elephant Stampede and the

881
00:34:54,890 --> 00:34:53,280
way should we do because people

882
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:54,900
traditionally done it with guns and Todd

883
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:56,490
ropes loose and she achieved actually

884
00:34:59,900 --> 00:34:58,320
found they were terrified of bees so she

885
00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:59,910
was hitting up beehives and things like

886
00:35:03,170 --> 00:35:01,500
this to try and keep efforts away and

887
00:35:06,830 --> 00:35:03,180
then I found this this this Austrian

888
00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:06,840
mare called elegance team who works in a

889
00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:08,040
sort of border town on the edge of

890
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:10,920
Germany and Poland called via linden who

891
00:35:15,890 --> 00:35:14,250
had an issue with prostitutes and his

892
00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:15,900
issue was that there were just so many

893
00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:18,030
of them because it's a main truck route

894
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:21,870
between Poland and Germany a lot of

895
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:22,890
vehicles going through there a lot of

896
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:24,930
drivers and the girls just hang around

897
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:26,310
on all the street corners all the street

898
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:27,510
so it's making life pretty unbearable

899
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,740
for the people who live there but

900
00:35:32,810 --> 00:35:31,200
prostitution is legal so it wasn't just

901
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:32,820
a case of throwing lots of cops at it or

902
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:35,730
judicial sisterhood so he thought about

903
00:35:39,110 --> 00:35:37,800
things he could do first what he started

904
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,120
working very closely with the sort of

905
00:35:43,070 --> 00:35:41,760
prostitutes union and started funding

906
00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:43,080
programs to try and get the girls off

907
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:44,790
the street but there was always still

908
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:46,050
lots of the rewards of the dierks it was

909
00:35:48,530 --> 00:35:47,280
easy money and a lot of girls were

910
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:48,540
coming over from Poland getting involved

911
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:50,130
as well so he then started thinking

912
00:35:57,410 --> 00:35:51,090
about how can i change the environment

913
00:35:59,330 --> 00:35:57,420
and and his rather left-field solution

914
00:36:01,820 --> 00:35:59,340
was to actually make the environments

915
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:01,830
i'm told and i think this made me feel

916
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:04,050
anecdotal but i'm told is because he was

917
00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:05,520
walking him one day and he saw happy how

918
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:06,660
disgusting people were walking around

919
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:08,370
sort of paper pizzas you know the old

920
00:36:13,500 --> 00:36:11,470
anything that the vomit everywhere along

921
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:13,510
yeah and and and he thought what a great

922
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:15,250
idea so he actually got hold of loads of

923
00:36:19,410 --> 00:36:16,810
fake vomit you know sort of Hollywood

924
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:19,420
fake vomit and and sort of splattered

925
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:20,950
around the street but but you know up

926
00:36:24,030 --> 00:36:22,270
the ante a little bit by adding some

927
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:24,040
chemicals like butyric acid these get

928
00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:27,130
all and to make it smell as well because

929
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:28,420
there's nothing more powerful of smell

930
00:36:31,470 --> 00:36:30,010
people people really don't think about

931
00:36:32,940 --> 00:36:31,480
Nathan put reg so they don't want to be

932
00:36:34,410 --> 00:36:32,950
me so it works the other way as well I

933
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:34,420
mean if you want people to sort of by

934
00:36:37,050 --> 00:36:35,950
your bread you pump break through the

935
00:36:38,460 --> 00:36:37,060
store you know if you'll be able to buy

936
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:38,470
the popcorn you pump the smell of

937
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,570
popcorn through the cinema and you know

938
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:42,400
advertisers know this but what's the

939
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:43,690
other way as well you start putting the

940
00:36:46,740 --> 00:36:45,430
smell of vomit around people think do I

941
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,750
really want to have sex here you know

942
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:49,119
that's it is am I really going to feel

943
00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:51,040
amorous when I like this bill is someone

944
00:36:56,490 --> 00:36:53,020
someone's meal from yesterday no and

945
00:36:58,140 --> 00:36:56,500
then I'd love to find out just how

946
00:36:59,490 --> 00:36:58,150
successful it was because I remember the

947
00:37:01,830 --> 00:36:59,500
story breaking at the time and I tried

948
00:37:04,740 --> 00:37:01,840
to get hold of him and I got someone

949
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:04,750
from his office who spoke it's about not

950
00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:06,130
bad english but a bit broken english and

951
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:07,420
just didn't understand what my interest

952
00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:08,890
was i think it was just some sort of

953
00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:11,230
report of a paper just trying to sort of

954
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:12,760
make the male look stupid or whatever

955
00:37:17,339 --> 00:37:15,760
but yeah I'd left I'd love to know just

956
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:17,349
what success he had but you know at

957
00:37:24,270 --> 00:37:19,930
least he was thinking about it so how do

958
00:37:27,570 --> 00:37:24,280
you keep teenagers away well yeah it's a

959
00:37:28,770 --> 00:37:27,580
top ten list I believe there is yeah the

960
00:37:30,810 --> 00:37:28,780
first thing I would say is that I think

961
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,820
instead of keeping teenagers away

962
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:32,560
whatever much hacks you'd rather do is

963
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:33,730
give them something constructive to do

964
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:35,650
because you know every piece of evidence

965
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:38,290
I have ever seen whether it's from you

966
00:37:41,609 --> 00:37:40,570
know sort of the academics or whether

967
00:37:43,470 --> 00:37:41,619
it's from police or whether it's from

968
00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:43,480
social service everything I've ever read

969
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:45,640
tells me that kids respond well when you

970
00:37:49,579 --> 00:37:46,960
give them something to do and even my

971
00:37:52,380 --> 00:37:49,589
generation I'm in my 50s my generation

972
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:52,390
we had lots to do as kids you know we

973
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:54,310
had we had fewer objects to do it with

974
00:37:57,329 --> 00:37:55,690
we didn't have the mobiles and the

975
00:37:59,010 --> 00:37:57,339
computers and that's something you know

976
00:38:00,210 --> 00:37:59,020
so in some ways they're gonna stick and

977
00:38:03,089 --> 00:38:00,220
ball and I was happy that you know

978
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:03,099
people say I mean I had a stick I mean

979
00:38:06,930 --> 00:38:05,290
if you got fewer things then you make

980
00:38:08,849 --> 00:38:06,940
more of them in you use your imagination

981
00:38:12,839 --> 00:38:08,859
more but but more than that there was a

982
00:38:15,359 --> 00:38:12,849
whole suede of adults who were willing

983
00:38:16,859 --> 00:38:15,369
to do things to give up their time to

984
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:16,869
help me do things there were boys club

985
00:38:19,940 --> 00:38:18,490
so we use clubs there was the scamp's

986
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:19,950
and the guides and a brownie

987
00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:22,230
was there were you know army cadets sea

988
00:38:26,210 --> 00:38:24,780
cadets air cadets boys brigade you know

989
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:26,220
that there were tons and other things to

990
00:38:29,570 --> 00:38:28,200
do there was you know and then clubs as

991
00:38:30,830 --> 00:38:29,580
well of a stamp clubs and there were

992
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:30,840
football clubs and there were this any

993
00:38:36,350 --> 00:38:33,570
other and we've lost something there in

994
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:36,360
the fact that you know now certainly in

995
00:38:40,430 --> 00:38:38,850
the UK you know the average couple both

996
00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:40,440
of them are working they get home late

997
00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:41,790
at night you know they're working sort

998
00:38:45,020 --> 00:38:43,560
of with traveling they're doing so 10

999
00:38:46,340 --> 00:38:45,030
hour days they get home they just want a

1000
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:46,350
glass of wine it's sloppy in front of

1001
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:47,760
the telly they don't go out with a bunch

1002
00:38:53,330 --> 00:38:50,310
of stroppy kids you know and similarly

1003
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:53,340
there's this this culture that's grown

1004
00:38:57,950 --> 00:38:55,770
up that if you do anything you know and

1005
00:38:59,960 --> 00:38:57,960
a little Sally or hardeep falls over and

1006
00:39:01,970 --> 00:38:59,970
sketch that you're going to be sued and

1007
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:01,980
and of course the worst thing of all is

1008
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:04,800
this media hyped idea that anyone who

1009
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:05,850
wants to work with kids must be a

1010
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:08,610
beautiful yeah so you don't get the

1011
00:39:12,290 --> 00:39:11,040
number of activities for kids so if you

1012
00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:12,300
don't give kids something to do they'll

1013
00:39:15,710 --> 00:39:14,280
do it themselves and you know we used to

1014
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:15,720
play in the street remember precisely

1015
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:17,610
yeah and the community would keep an eye

1016
00:39:22,490 --> 00:39:19,410
on the kids passionately and it's good

1017
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:22,500
it's natural and right and and it's part

1018
00:39:25,310 --> 00:39:24,150
of growing up to gather in groups and to

1019
00:39:27,620 --> 00:39:25,320
find you know a sense of your own

1020
00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:27,630
identity and and and what you have to do

1021
00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:29,220
is have to focus that and what I found

1022
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:30,990
in various if you do focus that you get

1023
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,850
some amazing results you get some

1024
00:39:36,740 --> 00:39:34,560
absolutely amazing results I talked to

1025
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:36,750
someone yesterday are saying that a

1026
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,210
middle-aged filmmaker went into some of

1027
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:41,760
the really toughest gangs you know

1028
00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:42,960
people are stabbing and shooting each

1029
00:39:46,370 --> 00:39:44,670
other in in London and actually work

1030
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:46,380
with him for about six months and when

1031
00:39:49,850 --> 00:39:47,490
she walked away at the end of it they

1032
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:49,860
wanted to be filmmakers you know because

1033
00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:51,090
they'd suddenly seen there was a world

1034
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:53,160
beyond their world where I mean I spoke

1035
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:54,480
to these kids I've worked with some of

1036
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:56,490
these groups and you know that some of

1037
00:39:58,640 --> 00:39:57,420
the most home to have looked me

1038
00:40:01,180 --> 00:39:58,650
earnestly in the i-league don't honestly

1039
00:40:04,450 --> 00:40:01,190
believe that you live past 30 Wow the

1040
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:04,460
public setting about yeah and it's um

1041
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:06,690
you can do things much more positive you

1042
00:40:10,820 --> 00:40:09,240
can build you know you can you can take

1043
00:40:12,170 --> 00:40:10,830
one small area if you want to sort of

1044
00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:12,180
chaperone the kids into a certain area

1045
00:40:14,930 --> 00:40:13,470
and you haven't got the money for youth

1046
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,940
club whatever you can build youth

1047
00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:17,400
shelters you know which which you know

1048
00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:18,900
is providing them with somewhere to go

1049
00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:20,550
it's somewhere that can be theirs where

1050
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:21,900
they can gather be amongst their own

1051
00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:25,680
group and talk etc etc and you know kids

1052
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:27,180
are quite tribal as well they'll they'll

1053
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:28,650
stay in groups if you keep those groups

1054
00:40:30,890 --> 00:40:29,880
separate in these shelters are given

1055
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:30,900
their own little basis they tend to

1056
00:40:34,140 --> 00:40:31,770
stick to the

1057
00:40:36,270 --> 00:40:34,150
yeah the stuff about keeping kids away

1058
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:36,280
if you have to do exercise going to be

1059
00:40:40,590 --> 00:40:38,310
some for troublemakers then there are

1060
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:40,600
ways of doing here you mentioned the top

1061
00:40:45,690 --> 00:40:43,210
10 yes music is music they smell weird

1062
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:45,700
other tools oh yeah music music is quite

1063
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:47,770
a powerful thing the other is a top 10 a

1064
00:40:51,390 --> 00:40:49,630
classical music which i think was put

1065
00:40:53,550 --> 00:40:51,400
together by one of the supermarket

1066
00:40:55,140 --> 00:40:53,560
chains in the UK I think paschal Bella's

1067
00:40:57,300 --> 00:40:55,150
or pack will have you pronounce is at

1068
00:40:59,850 --> 00:40:57,310
the top but there is a top 10 classical

1069
00:41:02,460 --> 00:40:59,860
music most likely to make kids go walk

1070
00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:02,470
away I know we used to use Barry Manilow

1071
00:41:07,740 --> 00:41:05,350
remember Leah absolutely no berries

1072
00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:07,750
berries very popular and I was thinking

1073
00:41:10,670 --> 00:41:09,070
about putting this into a book at one

1074
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:10,680
time one of my chapter headings was a

1075
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:13,570
you know remember it's now you're gonna

1076
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:14,710
have to up the ante we're bringing out

1077
00:41:20,430 --> 00:41:17,680
the berry man just for the chapter on

1078
00:41:21,870 --> 00:41:20,440
using sound and but in this country

1079
00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:21,880
anyway probably wouldn't work in America

1080
00:41:24,570 --> 00:41:23,080
but this country country and western is

1081
00:41:25,650 --> 00:41:24,580
very popular as well yes I don't know

1082
00:41:27,180 --> 00:41:25,660
what is in a country western but it'd be

1083
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:27,190
kind of great song Brits I don't know

1084
00:41:30,570 --> 00:41:29,290
why yeah but that's very popular so what

1085
00:41:31,860 --> 00:41:30,580
do you park it out at the end of dark

1086
00:41:33,450 --> 00:41:31,870
alleyways or something yeah absolutely

1087
00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:33,460
I'd shops a place where you don't want

1088
00:41:38,250 --> 00:41:36,940
kids together and it kind of works I

1089
00:41:40,350 --> 00:41:38,260
mean that it's better than some of the

1090
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:40,360
other solutions I mean which a butcher I

1091
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:41,770
mean the one I really hate is a thing

1092
00:41:45,110 --> 00:41:43,690
called a mosquito which is a box you put

1093
00:41:47,850 --> 00:41:45,120
on the wall it emits a high-frequency

1094
00:41:49,890 --> 00:41:47,860
wine which you can only hear when you're

1095
00:41:51,450 --> 00:41:49,900
kind of under the age of 25 because over

1096
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:51,460
the age of 25 you're hearing just starts

1097
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:52,690
to go off a little bit because I think

1098
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:54,370
you start falling apart ones here 25

1099
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:55,810
yeah it's a downward spiral from there

1100
00:42:01,440 --> 00:41:59,920
yeah and yeah and this wine I'm gonna

1101
00:42:02,430 --> 00:42:01,450
actually heard the frequency up to the

1102
00:42:03,690 --> 00:42:02,440
bit where it just starts to go I've

1103
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:03,700
actually got a little thing of my laptop

1104
00:42:07,950 --> 00:42:05,650
I can do the different sounds and don't

1105
00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:07,960
straighten it it's a really piercing you

1106
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,070
don't really hear it's like in your

1107
00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:11,440
skull but it's it's non-discriminatory

1108
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:13,660
you know it will affect every person

1109
00:42:17,010 --> 00:42:15,520
under the age of 25 who gets within that

1110
00:42:18,810 --> 00:42:17,020
code of sound and then Clues babies in

1111
00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:18,820
prams for goodness sake I mean to mama

1112
00:42:23,550 --> 00:42:20,590
that's a sonic weapon and we wouldn't

1113
00:42:25,890 --> 00:42:23,560
use we wouldn't take any other par

1114
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,900
society you know disabled people black

1115
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:27,520
people you know Muslim people whatever

1116
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:29,410
and focus something on them that just

1117
00:42:33,060 --> 00:42:30,970
harms them and no one else and that

1118
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:33,070
there is also some evidence that some

1119
00:42:38,250 --> 00:42:36,250
types of autism it actually causes these

1120
00:42:40,770 --> 00:42:38,260
people physical pain so i'm not a very

1121
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:40,780
fan of those take years very off

1122
00:42:44,010 --> 00:42:42,610
not so much they were really really

1123
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:44,020
popular a while even because they were a

1124
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:45,970
cheap option for local authorities

1125
00:42:48,930 --> 00:42:47,650
instead of trying to find you know

1126
00:42:50,490 --> 00:42:48,940
proper things for kids to engage with

1127
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:50,500
it's just take some boxes up and drive

1128
00:42:54,330 --> 00:42:52,960
the problem somewhere else there was

1129
00:42:57,420 --> 00:42:54,340
also things like pink lighting people

1130
00:42:59,340 --> 00:42:57,430
were using pink lighting because that

1131
00:43:00,720 --> 00:42:59,350
came against him from looking around or

1132
00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:00,730
what else was happening in the world and

1133
00:43:04,650 --> 00:43:02,500
realizing that pink lighting is used in

1134
00:43:07,170 --> 00:43:04,660
the beauty industry cosmetics industry

1135
00:43:08,670 --> 00:43:07,180
to highlight skin blemishes right so

1136
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:08,680
what you do is you put a nice pink

1137
00:43:11,580 --> 00:43:10,690
lighting in an underpass and all the

1138
00:43:13,950 --> 00:43:11,590
kids are standing around there were

1139
00:43:16,020 --> 00:43:13,960
their faces go you know and they don't

1140
00:43:18,690 --> 00:43:16,030
be like that what may be quite sensitive

1141
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:18,700
at that point this is it if you've got

1142
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:19,810
acne the last thing you want it so I'm

1143
00:43:22,740 --> 00:43:21,610
pointing it out to you know you may have

1144
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:22,750
been able to cover it with foundation

1145
00:43:28,350 --> 00:43:24,010
but the pink light will find you you

1146
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:28,360
know so yeah that I I'm much more a fan

1147
00:43:31,410 --> 00:43:29,200
of actually giving them something

1148
00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:31,420
meaningful to do and if you have to keep

1149
00:43:35,370 --> 00:43:33,190
them away from certain location use

1150
00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:35,380
something a bit safer a wife say one of

1151
00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:37,270
the funniest ones ever saw I was down

1152
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:38,740
visiting my native Cornwall about five

1153
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:41,530
years ago and i was in tonight's which

1154
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:43,090
is a very popular tourist attraction

1155
00:43:48,060 --> 00:43:45,310
nice little harbour lots of little earth

1156
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:48,070
cafés and galleries and there was a guy

1157
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:50,530
out in the morning with a paintbrush so

1158
00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:51,730
the painting would appear to be just

1159
00:43:56,340 --> 00:43:53,590
water on his window and I thought that's

1160
00:43:58,410 --> 00:43:56,350
a bit odd and a little bit later I

1161
00:44:01,080 --> 00:43:58,420
walked past there and I saw the kids

1162
00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:01,090
real games shop and moving away and I

1163
00:44:04,020 --> 00:44:02,830
thought that's us that so when's the

1164
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:04,030
shop and asked him and what he does

1165
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:05,770
every morning is he gets sugary water

1166
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:07,570
and he paints it on the window of his

1167
00:44:13,950 --> 00:44:11,680
shop yeah and it attracts wasps so it

1168
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:13,960
dries clear or maybe you know just ever

1169
00:44:16,980 --> 00:44:15,970
so slightly yeah but it dries clear but

1170
00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:16,990
the point is it doesn't stop people

1171
00:44:19,890 --> 00:44:18,790
going into a shot music yet but no must

1172
00:44:21,570 --> 00:44:19,900
design that side for any length of time

1173
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:21,580
but there's always watch near his shop

1174
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:23,410
and then I found he said I said I've got

1175
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:24,490
the idea for a friend of mine he said

1176
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:25,690
he's got a bin outside a shop and every

1177
00:44:28,830 --> 00:44:27,010
money goes out and throws lots of sugary

1178
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:28,840
stuff in the bin so there's always wasps

1179
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:30,460
around the outside to be sure so their

1180
00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:34,270
biological weapons so you're not a cop

1181
00:44:39,950 --> 00:44:36,350
anymore I no no no

1182
00:44:41,690 --> 00:44:39,960
no I I finished a few years ago I did my

1183
00:44:44,780 --> 00:44:41,700
30 years what six months that became 30

1184
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:44,790
so is your dad proud uh he was yes yes

1185
00:44:49,070 --> 00:44:46,410
I'll be dead now bless him but he's um

1186
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:49,080
yeah he was proud and he was very he was

1187
00:44:53,660 --> 00:44:50,370
very pleased even though he was a very

1188
00:44:55,850 --> 00:44:53,670
traditional cop he was he was very proud

1189
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:55,860
that I'd stood by my guns and sort of

1190
00:44:59,450 --> 00:44:57,720
stuck with my beliefs and and ultimately

1191
00:45:02,840 --> 00:44:59,460
I mean of the 30 years I did probably

1192
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:02,850
about 15 18 of them were were difficult

1193
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:05,010
little bit of that way but but after a

1194
00:45:09,620 --> 00:45:07,170
while people started to realize not

1195
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,630
because of me but because some academics

1196
00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:11,520
and some other famous people were saying

1197
00:45:15,830 --> 00:45:13,800
the same thing as I was that maybe this

1198
00:45:18,260 --> 00:45:15,840
was a better way forward and when that

1199
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:18,270
shift occurred then they started looking

1200
00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:19,530
for people within the organization you

1201
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:21,180
could do it explodes been doing it for a

1202
00:45:24,050 --> 00:45:22,560
few years and this supposed to be doing

1203
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:24,060
this book been doing it and they put us

1204
00:45:27,730 --> 00:45:25,920
together to make this little team called

1205
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:27,740
the problem solving unit Wickersham

1206
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,660
which for about 10 years we went out and

1207
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:32,880
did these sorts of initiatives all over

1208
00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:34,710
London and we trained other cops how to

1209
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:36,180
do and we trained other agencies had to

1210
00:45:40,490 --> 00:45:37,650
do it and work with other agencies to

1211
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:40,500
get this working and but then yeah my 30

1212
00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:43,290
years was up and I left and down and

1213
00:45:45,950 --> 00:45:44,760
it's I'd like to think you know that

1214
00:45:47,330 --> 00:45:45,960
there's a little bit of a legacy of the

1215
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:47,340
fact that some of the stuff we were

1216
00:45:51,950 --> 00:45:50,520
doing is still built into training now

1217
00:45:53,540 --> 00:45:51,960
the training isn't just about cash the

1218
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:53,550
boat going out it does talk about the

1219
00:45:57,140 --> 00:45:55,010
importance of working with communities

1220
00:45:59,060 --> 00:45:57,150
engaging with other agencies like the

1221
00:46:00,440 --> 00:45:59,070
Fire Service and the National Health

1222
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:00,450
Service and local authorities and

1223
00:46:03,350 --> 00:46:02,130
planners and these sorts of people so

1224
00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:03,360
there is a little bit of a legacy that

1225
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:05,220
which I'm very proud or so so what are

1226
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:07,530
you doing now it couldn't be dismal

1227
00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:09,810
different actually right TV radio shows

1228
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:12,420
that I can obviously yeah there's a show

1229
00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:14,640
very popular in the UK this show called

1230
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:16,980
Qi yeah we have Qi homers of course yeah

1231
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:18,780
they public and then they play it like

1232
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:20,250
four times a week in us yeah well they

1233
00:46:24,140 --> 00:46:22,170
pay about eight times a day here some of

1234
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:24,150
the satellite channels but it's a yeah

1235
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:25,650
we actually won out and do a tour last

1236
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:28,440
year of all the cities with Stephen and

1237
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:30,890
Alan but oh yeah it's a bit of a weird

1238
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:33,510
shift of focus but but curiously it's

1239
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:35,010
that same sort of skepticism is that

1240
00:46:41,390 --> 00:46:38,160
same querying things that sort of led me

1241
00:46:42,530 --> 00:46:41,400
to them because I I was doing some

1242
00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:42,540
writing i was doing quite a bit of

1243
00:46:46,310 --> 00:46:44,190
logging I would co-opt and go into the

1244
00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:46,320
Qi forums and put notes on saying we'll

1245
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:47,990
actually have you looked at this as well

1246
00:46:51,830 --> 00:46:50,730
and I wrote the book which was called

1247
00:46:53,780 --> 00:46:51,840
joined up thinking which came out in

1248
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:53,790
2008 which was all about the

1249
00:46:56,540 --> 00:46:55,290
interconnectedness between stuff and it

1250
00:46:58,850 --> 00:46:56,550
kind of probably to their attention and

1251
00:47:00,710 --> 00:46:58,860
and a few years later I was working on

1252
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:00,720
the Museum of curiosity which is the

1253
00:47:06,770 --> 00:47:03,480
which is Qi sister show on BBC Radio 4

1254
00:47:08,510 --> 00:47:06,780
and and then they ended up working on

1255
00:47:10,850 --> 00:47:08,520
scripts for that and now I'm doing sort

1256
00:47:13,010 --> 00:47:10,860
of work for the the actual TV show your

1257
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:13,020
researcher for them long yeah Risa I'm a

1258
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:14,730
researcher and writer for the museum and

1259
00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:18,000
I'm a researcher for the the Qi TV show

1260
00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:19,590
although like all of us we've all got

1261
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:21,180
input to the scripts i'm there at the

1262
00:47:23,810 --> 00:47:22,290
moment every monday on the script

1263
00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:23,820
meetings and we start recording any

1264
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:25,800
series in about two weeks fantastic a

1265
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:27,420
bit of a different bit of a change yeah

1266
00:47:32,170 --> 00:47:29,370
yeah but the same rules apply you know

1267
00:47:35,180 --> 00:47:32,180
the very same rules that that you know

1268
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:35,190
sort of made my schooldays challenging

1269
00:47:39,410 --> 00:47:37,680
and made my police station is making my

1270
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:39,420
new world in the media challenging but

1271
00:47:42,740 --> 00:47:41,040
it's a good challenge because it's

1272
00:47:44,990 --> 00:47:42,750
always constantly questioning it's

1273
00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:45,000
always constantly asking the question

1274
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:46,680
though is this right could this be done

1275
00:47:51,050 --> 00:47:49,260
better you know do I'm not going to just

1276
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:51,060
blindly accept this show me it's right

1277
00:47:55,460 --> 00:47:53,010
you know and and that's why I think you

1278
00:47:56,780 --> 00:47:55,470
are so successful because it does they

1279
00:47:58,550 --> 00:47:56,790
call this lovely phrase general

1280
00:48:00,110 --> 00:47:58,560
ignorance the idea that a lot of the

1281
00:48:01,550 --> 00:48:00,120
things we think we know because it's the

1282
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:01,560
except in orthodoxy or it's what we were

1283
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:04,010
taught in school is actually not right

1284
00:48:08,270 --> 00:48:06,960
you know the idea that things do change

1285
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:08,280
I was a wonderful book came out last

1286
00:48:13,370 --> 00:48:11,610
year by Samuel Ombudsman called the

1287
00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,380
half-life of facts if you can chose to

1288
00:48:17,390 --> 00:48:15,540
read it or if you haven't already yes

1289
00:48:18,740 --> 00:48:17,400
it's it's a great book where he went

1290
00:48:20,570 --> 00:48:18,750
back through lots and lots of different

1291
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:20,580
academic papers in different fields of

1292
00:48:24,620 --> 00:48:23,250
physics biology etc and found that that

1293
00:48:27,590 --> 00:48:24,630
there is a half life in the fact that

1294
00:48:29,090 --> 00:48:27,600
you know by 20 years a significant

1295
00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:29,100
proportion maybe I kept one the figures

1296
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:30,630
are thirty forty percent of the

1297
00:48:34,130 --> 00:48:32,850
information those papers is wrong so you

1298
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:34,140
have to cause the key question and you

1299
00:48:37,550 --> 00:48:35,760
have to you have to constantly keep

1300
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:37,560
yourself up to date and look at things

1301
00:48:41,330 --> 00:48:39,900
and not just accept that it's fact I

1302
00:48:43,940 --> 00:48:41,340
mean that's that's the rub my head in

1303
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:43,950
school I mean dinosaurs was a big thing

1304
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:45,960
for me and my teachers were telling me

1305
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:47,730
stuff in biology classes which I knew

1306
00:48:51,860 --> 00:48:49,440
was wrong because it had been superseded

1307
00:48:53,850 --> 00:48:51,870
by facts and even then since then when i

1308
00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:53,860
was in school in the 70s to now

1309
00:48:57,900 --> 00:48:55,030
dinosaurs come from the Bingleys

1310
00:48:59,250 --> 00:48:57,910
lumbering dull grey creatures who in

1311
00:49:00,690 --> 00:48:59,260
some cases couldn't support their own

1312
00:49:02,910 --> 00:49:00,700
body weight Lee and water to being

1313
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:02,920
dynamic feather colored mega chicken

1314
00:49:06,780 --> 00:49:05,530
yeah make a chicken yeah it's you know

1315
00:49:07,650 --> 00:49:06,790
it's caused it the world's got any

1316
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:07,660
changes you have to constantly

1317
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:11,290
challenged the preconceptions of people

1318
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:14,470
who stick within what they learned and

1319
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:16,570
don't move on from there you know so so

1320
00:49:19,350 --> 00:49:18,070
yeah and it's lovely to be involved with

1321
00:49:21,270 --> 00:49:19,360
something like this with this so

1322
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:21,280
skeptical thing well thanks for taking

1323
00:49:25,050 --> 00:49:23,530
the time to talk to Austin so do you

1324
00:49:26,580 --> 00:49:25,060
have a website a blog what where can

1325
00:49:28,890 --> 00:49:26,590
people find out more about you I do I

1326
00:49:30,450 --> 00:49:28,900
mean the there's a website well this

1327
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:30,460
it's more to do with the artwork in the

1328
00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:33,850
writing out with you www Steven colgan

1329
00:49:40,620 --> 00:49:38,070
calm now i'm steven ste v YN colgan com

1330
00:49:42,690 --> 00:49:40,630
and i've got a blog called colgan ology

1331
00:49:44,490 --> 00:49:42,700
which just putting collier colgan ology

1332
00:49:46,830 --> 00:49:44,500
you'll find it so around and it covers

1333
00:49:48,060 --> 00:49:46,840
all sorts of things art science just

1334
00:49:49,980 --> 00:49:48,070
things are finding the papers of him and

1335
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:49,990
what was the name of your book again it

1336
00:49:52,350 --> 00:49:51,310
was called joined up thinking and I've

1337
00:49:53,940 --> 00:49:52,360
got another one coming out next month

1338
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,950
called constable Calkins connect the

1339
00:49:57,540 --> 00:49:55,440
scope which is also about

1340
00:49:59,130 --> 00:49:57,550
interconnectedness of everything so cool

1341
00:50:13,440 --> 00:49:59,140
all right well thanks David's been

1342
00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:16,079
ein grosses hello an ally Dawson to her

1343
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:18,940
that the skeptics on podcasts roasted

1344
00:50:22,589 --> 00:50:20,530
year this is our endowment and in

1345
00:50:24,990 --> 00:50:22,599
skeptic a fab and kept the vital

1346
00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:25,000
information Oberon's on the skeptic

1347
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:29,980
magazine reserved vvv punt gavey OOP a

1348
00:50:37,290 --> 00:50:33,730
punk rock hv dejala vay vay vay pumped

1349
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,300
heave a rupee Potok hold on to love it

1350
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:39,280
say on facebook twitter and google+

1351
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,200
here's my not spooky action at a

1352
00:51:02,210 --> 00:51:00,470
I have an interesting story for you here

1353
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:02,220
I'm talking to Scott bottle in that

1354
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:04,319
Western Australia where in wa I occur

1355
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:06,420
and the reason I'm talking to you is you

1356
00:51:11,839 --> 00:51:09,210
had a well semi recent experience about

1357
00:51:13,489 --> 00:51:11,849
importing a car into Australia and

1358
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:13,499
what's so special about this car and why

1359
00:51:18,019 --> 00:51:14,609
did you want it to import it into

1360
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:18,029
Australia in the first place 1959 should

1361
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:21,119
call that in my travels working overseas

1362
00:51:25,249 --> 00:51:23,490
just fell in love with this call that

1363
00:51:28,099 --> 00:51:25,259
basically wanted to import that back to

1364
00:51:30,589 --> 00:51:28,109
Australia went through the process of

1365
00:51:32,329 --> 00:51:30,599
doing what I thought was normal at the

1366
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,339
time and applying for import approval

1367
00:51:37,099 --> 00:51:34,319
eventually that took about nine months

1368
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:37,109
to get in court approval and that's

1369
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:39,089
where I started climbing out all sorts

1370
00:51:43,130 --> 00:51:41,249
of different things along this process

1371
00:51:46,249 --> 00:51:43,140
you definitely go down a real rabbit

1372
00:51:48,259 --> 00:51:46,259
hole here and I succinctly describe what

1373
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,269
you experienced trying to import a car

1374
00:51:52,190 --> 00:51:50,400
and it is a very difficult thing to do

1375
00:51:54,799 --> 00:51:52,200
too many people do this is an unusual

1376
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:54,809
thing to bring a single car over not

1377
00:51:59,660 --> 00:51:57,210
entirely difficult the real hiccup

1378
00:52:02,539 --> 00:51:59,670
occurred to me when I was applying for

1379
00:52:04,849 --> 00:52:02,549
this import approval and following the

1380
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:04,859
guidelines that were published to put

1381
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:06,569
your application for me that's when I

1382
00:52:09,970 --> 00:52:08,160
started really digging deeper and

1383
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:09,980
putting together flowcharts to

1384
00:52:14,210 --> 00:52:12,089
demonstrate that I was actually fully

1385
00:52:16,099 --> 00:52:14,220
complying with this some guideline and

1386
00:52:18,140 --> 00:52:16,109
what it turned out was that I couldn't

1387
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:18,150
use the guideline could because it

1388
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:21,359
wasn't law and yet I've been quoted from

1389
00:52:25,819 --> 00:52:23,970
enticing refusing my application what

1390
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:25,829
made you think it wasn't long scott

1391
00:52:30,769 --> 00:52:27,690
within the Administrative Appeals

1392
00:52:32,839 --> 00:52:30,779
Tribunal that's the argument that the

1393
00:52:35,269 --> 00:52:32,849
lawyer put forward to the tribunal that

1394
00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:35,279
it was a guideline and was not law the

1395
00:52:40,819 --> 00:52:37,980
department had quoted from it twice

1396
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:40,829
through a fuse me so precedent was that

1397
00:52:45,859 --> 00:52:43,529
it was usable got the input approval

1398
00:52:49,309 --> 00:52:45,869
after nine months got the car on the

1399
00:52:51,529 --> 00:52:49,319
boat went through with import broker to

1400
00:52:54,529 --> 00:52:51,539
determine every single possible charge

1401
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:54,539
that I'd be likely to experience i knew

1402
00:52:59,299 --> 00:52:56,970
i was going to pay shipping peach yours

1403
00:53:03,109 --> 00:52:59,309
going to pay insurance due to GSP all of

1404
00:53:05,359 --> 00:53:03,119
these things okay no problem car arrives

1405
00:53:08,210 --> 00:53:05,369
in fremont or next CNR find out about

1406
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:08,220
another charge I'm now being told that I

1407
00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:10,650
had to apply for a license preach

1408
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:13,350
equipment license she's essentially a

1409
00:53:16,970 --> 00:53:15,210
license relating to the gas in the air

1410
00:53:20,030 --> 00:53:16,980
conditioner I thought hang on a minute

1411
00:53:22,070 --> 00:53:20,040
I've got this input approval already why

1412
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:22,080
do I need approval for the air

1413
00:53:25,940 --> 00:53:23,970
conditioner that's already in the car is

1414
00:53:27,770 --> 00:53:25,950
this just a money grab and that turned

1415
00:53:29,390 --> 00:53:27,780
out to be a common practice there were

1416
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:29,400
other guys who are importing their cars

1417
00:53:34,610 --> 00:53:31,680
we only found out about that license

1418
00:53:38,090 --> 00:53:34,620
once the car was off the boat behind the

1419
00:53:40,190 --> 00:53:38,100
gates in the customs area what's all

1420
00:53:42,620 --> 00:53:40,200
this these money grabs for let's start

1421
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:42,630
asking it to you more detailed questions

1422
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:44,370
and what did you find out when you did

1423
00:53:48,620 --> 00:53:46,650
that in left nine month period that I

1424
00:53:51,020 --> 00:53:48,630
was going it had with the Department of

1425
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:51,030
Transport for the import approval I've

1426
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:52,410
started noticing some little

1427
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:54,480
inconsistencies that seemed order I'm

1428
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,810
seeing a copyright symbol next to the

1429
00:54:02,120 --> 00:53:59,520
Commonwealth of Australia on various

1430
00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:02,130
websites copyright generally denotes

1431
00:54:06,590 --> 00:54:04,740
ownership and this is something that

1432
00:54:09,260 --> 00:54:06,600
usually goes along with a corporate sort

1433
00:54:11,620 --> 00:54:09,270
of environment coca-cola don't usually

1434
00:54:15,950 --> 00:54:11,630
want to copyright symbols that relate to

1435
00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:15,960
a country's heritage I have run across a

1436
00:54:20,930 --> 00:54:19,380
couple of lawyers retired now who have

1437
00:54:24,110 --> 00:54:20,940
been going through this material and

1438
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:24,120
going that doesn't matter tell us all

1439
00:54:27,290 --> 00:54:25,710
about your website so people can have

1440
00:54:29,780 --> 00:54:27,300
have a look at your thoughts and your

1441
00:54:31,790 --> 00:54:29,790
movie there and what's another good

1442
00:54:33,590 --> 00:54:31,800
general constitutional website that that

1443
00:54:36,050 --> 00:54:33,600
you can also compare as well so we get

1444
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:36,060
like a good overview or my website that

1445
00:54:41,090 --> 00:54:38,490
i put together is called truth dash now

1446
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:41,100
dotnet another good website to look up

1447
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:44,490
is larry Hannigan's Larry Hannigan calm

1448
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:47,040
though you he does some great work in

1449
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:49,110
actually pulling apart some of the

1450
00:54:54,260 --> 00:54:52,050
various acts and highlighting some of

1451
00:54:55,970 --> 00:54:54,270
those inconsistencies they start

1452
00:54:57,950 --> 00:54:55,980
becoming more obvious when you when

1453
00:55:00,110 --> 00:54:57,960
you're attuned to it and are looking for

1454
00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:00,120
one the film is what the frequently

1455
00:55:04,070 --> 00:55:02,400
unanswered questions or what the fuq

1456
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:04,080
thank you for your time today Scott

1457
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:19,560
virtual skeptics is a weekly web show in

1458
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,370
which we discuss the latest news in

1459
00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:23,680
skepticism whether it's a new case of

1460
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:25,180
spontaneous human combustion a

1461
00:55:29,580 --> 00:55:27,370
conspiracy theory the latest update on

1462
00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:29,590
the upcoming robot apocalypse tech news

1463
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:31,270
for skeptics are the latest wacky

1464
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:33,730
religious claim we cover it all we

1465
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:36,130
record the show live as a Google+ on-air

1466
00:55:40,590 --> 00:55:38,770
hang out so join us and our host Brian

1467
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:40,600
Gregory for an hour of mostly

1468
00:55:45,630 --> 00:55:42,730
intelligent talk every wednesday at

1469
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:45,640
eight pm eastern US time watch us at

1470
00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:48,640
virtual skeptics calm and participate in

1471
00:55:54,210 --> 00:55:51,310
the show on our hashtag virtual skeptics

1472
00:56:06,810 --> 00:55:54,220
the virtual skeptics it's like meet the

1473
00:56:13,210 --> 00:56:09,430
what what what show number was that

1474
00:56:14,820 --> 00:56:13,220
again Richard oh excuse me haha good

1475
00:56:17,380 --> 00:56:14,830
morning it like still kicking it off oh

1476
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:17,390
is that was number that was episode

1477
00:56:30,190 --> 00:56:28,000
what's new yeah well had a great show

1478
00:56:31,930 --> 00:56:30,200
again it was I love those vampires the

1479
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:31,940
good stuff I'm like many interesting

1480
00:56:36,940 --> 00:56:34,210
vampire stuff it and and all that that

1481
00:56:38,890 --> 00:56:36,950
Steve Steve colgan with these

1482
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:38,900
interesting way to approach problems I

1483
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:42,110
love that song good son do yes the mind

1484
00:56:47,170 --> 00:56:44,210
is a powerful thing is when it's not

1485
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:47,180
being turned to jelly by my bell or

1486
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:50,330
booboo it's indeed Stepford you're

1487
00:56:54,310 --> 00:56:52,490
absolutely right you love the Sun

1488
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:54,320
setting outside your window the Sun

1489
00:56:58,090 --> 00:56:56,690
rising I don't even know what I don't

1490
00:57:00,070 --> 00:56:58,100
even know either I haven't got anywhere

1491
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:00,080
that's what it's like around there on

1492
00:57:03,490 --> 00:57:02,000
these parts but dates mean it's great to

1493
00:57:04,990 --> 00:57:03,500
have you back in and thanks for all the

1494
00:57:08,830 --> 00:57:05,000
listeners for continuing to listen to

1495
00:57:11,710 --> 00:57:08,840
episode 236 oh my goodness we can keep

1496
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:11,720
listening yes because you might notice a

1497
00:57:17,230 --> 00:57:14,000
double download this week oh really

1498
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:17,240
really ah ah don't say we actually

1499
00:57:22,330 --> 00:57:19,250
finish that project we actually finished

1500
00:57:25,609 --> 00:57:22,340
not really well i'm looking forward to

1501
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:25,619
hearing and how it goes and everyone's

1502
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:28,570
all right I'm having here to go back to

1503
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:31,210
bed all right good night and see you

1504
00:57:41,630 --> 00:57:37,690
next time bye you've been listening to

1505
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:41,640
the skeptic zone visit her website at